Teaching an Old Dog New Tricks: The Italian Vetterli 1870/87/15

Above: The 1870/87 Italian Vetterli. Note the addition of the bolt support rail, the magazine, and the magazine support plate.

Only a few years later, the Vetterli received yet another major upgrade: the adoption of the M.90 smokeless powder 10.4x47mm cartridge. Using balistite as a propellant, this new cartridge featured a jacketed bullet that weighed only 240 grains, but was flying at around 2,000 feet per second, compared to about 1,400 feet per second for the black powder cartridge that preceded it. The adoption of the new cartridge necessitated the replacement of the existing sights with the new M.90 sights to match the new ballistics. As this new cartridge was adopted in 1890, it would be the last major change to the Vetterli rifle for nearly 25 years, as the M1891 Carcano would gradually begin to replace it. 

In all, it is estimated that about 1.6 million Vetterli rifles were manufactured. Setting aside the specifics of different patterns, the majority of these rifles, as of the time of Italy’s entry to the First World War, were configured as smokeless powder-firing, large-bore, repeating rifles. 

Italy Requires More Rifles

One of the overlooked facts about the Vetterli 1870/87/15 is its designation itself; specifically, the “/15,” denoting the year of the conversion’s adoption, 1915. As Italy declared war on Austria-Hungary in May of 1915, it is clear that the plan to convert the old Vetterli rifles to use the 6.5 Carcano cartridges was not a late-war, reactive response to small arms shortages, but rather a proactive measure taken to start freeing up Carcano rifles to go to frontline service before the situation became too desperate. Reportedly, an initial conversion method was proposed to the Italian Army on May 21st, 1915, just three days before Italy’s declaration of war. That method, however, was rejected, likely due to its requirement of newly produced barrels, whereas the conversion method that would ultimately be used did not require new barrels. The conversion itself had good reasoning behind it: supply logistics would not be impeded if there was no need to provide two types of ammunition, each with their own charging/feeding device, to soldiers. It should be noted that Italy did field Vetterli 1870/87 rifles chambered in the 10.4x47mm cartridge during the war, as evidenced through many photos available depicting Italian troops armed with them, though specific details on their usage are severely lacking. A photograph in “Caporetto and the Isonzo Campaign” by John MacDonald and Željko Cimprič depicts an Italian soldier carrying a Vetterli 1870/87, complete with the original sword-type bayonet, while standing guard over captured Austro-Hungarian soldiers at Caporetto in the early stages of the war. 

Between 1915 and 1918, several hundred thousand Vetterli 1870/87 rifles were converted to the 1870/87/15 pattern. In his book “The Italian Vetterli Rifle,” Robert Wilsey notes that around 400,000 rifles were converted, while other sources have quoted numbers ranging from 500,000 to 700,000. An Italian Army source notes that 700,768 rifles were converted. This is likely to be the more accurate number, as subtracting it from the remaining ~900,000 rifles Italy would have had after sending 400,000 1870/87 pattern rifles to Russia as aid would give an over 3:1 ratio of 6.5mm Vetterlis to 10.4mm Vetterlis, which is certainly reflected in current market availability. 

Above: The 1870/87/15 Italian Vetterli

The conversions themselves were extraordinarily efficient, requiring only a handful of major modifications as well as a few minor modifications. These include:

• Sleeving the existing barrel to reduce bore size to the appropriate 6.5mm diameter from the original 10.4mm diameter using the Salerno Method of re-lining a barrel

  • As a note to this, an often repeated line regarding these barrel conversions is that the liners were soft soldered in place and thus were prone to coming loose during repeated fire as the heat melted the solder. The Salerno process does not involve soldering; the liner is fixed in place by forcing hardened rods through it to expand it into the bored-out barrel, which essentially press fits it into place. 

• Milling out the center of the bolt face to accept the 6.5 Carcano cartridge

  • This modification was very efficient, as the center of the bolt face could be easily milled out, allowing the edges of the bolt face to support the cartridge.

  • One oddity that has presented itself is the appearance of several 6.5 converted Vetterli rifles with bolt faces that have been pinned to the bolt body. It would seem as if the process for these involved cutting off the original bolt face and simply pinning a new one on. Though at first this might seem like an alternate (and somewhat concerning) method of doing the bolt modification, the length of the bolt face piece that has been attached to the bolt varies from rifle to rifle, indicating that it may have been done as a headspace correction method. This aspect of the 6.5 Vetterli rifles is still being researched. 

    • Note: As of January 2024, it is now understood that these bolt heads are in fact pinned to the bolt body. Previously, the belief was that they were either brazed or soldered on. This changed when I received a rifle that had a loose pin, which was able to be easily driven out, allowing the bolt head to be removed. The age of these rifles and condition they are often found in resulted in the pin being concealed and not easily noticeable on many examples. 

• Modifying the firing pin length and shape to accommodate the bolt modifications

• Removing the Vitali magazine and supporting plate that accompanied it

• Adding a Mannlicher-style magazine (found in either a flat-sided configuration or with an indentation on the sides of the magazine, possibly for support) and gluing wood support fillers on each side, which fills the space left by the wider Vitali magazine

• Milling out the receiver opening to accommodate the longer 6.5 Carcano cartridge

• Removing the cartridge stops that were previously added during the conversion to the 1870/87 pattern

• Changing the front and rear sights to match the ballistics of the 6.5 Carcano cartridge

Above, left to right: 1870, 1870/87, and 1870/87/15 pattern Italian Vetterli rifle receivers. 

Note the drastic differences between the original design the the 1870/87/15. Nearly 30% of the receiver material was removed by the time the rifles finished their final conversion to 6.5 Carcano, a testament to the strength of the original Vetterli design. 

Additionally, some early conversions of Vetterli rifles to 6.5mm appear to have been done using a method proposed by Beretta, with those conversions having longer bolt support rails as well as an enlarged loading port and having the magazine moved slightly rearward. These are relatively uncommon and are referred to as the “Versione X” (Wilsey, A Newly Discovered Vetterli Variant: The “Versione X”, Man at Arms magazine, October 2019), though no official designation has been found yet. 

Shooting the Vetterli 1870/87/15 Rifles

The safety of the Vetterli 1870/87/15 conversions is often debated amongst collectors, with arguments ranging from complete dismissal of the conversion’s viability (“These guns are pipe bombs and should NEVER be fired”) to complete trust in their safety (“I have fired hundreds of rounds of surplus 6.5m ammo through them without issue”). This is by far one of the most common discussions about the 1870/87/15 rifles and can be seen nearly every time they are brought up. Without going to extreme detail, some basic facts about these conversions must be presented:

• With over 1,300,000 rifles held in reserve at the start of the First World War, it is necessary that appropriate ammunition reserves must have also existed to accompany the rifles. A 1927 Army Staff source notes inventory of 1,316,000 rifles and 125 million rounds of ammunition. Accounting for the aid sent to Russia (400,000 rifles and 8 million rounds of ammunition, per Wilsey), Italian inventory for the war would therefore be 916,000 rifles and 117 million rounds of ammunition, roughly 127 rounds per rifle.  

• Despite the legitimate logistics and supply difficulties presented by using both the 10.4x47mm and 6.5x52mm cartridges during the conflict, it is unlikely that this alone was enough reasoning to undergo converting upwards of 700,000 rifles. As the 1870/87/15 conversions must have been tested prior to adoption, it is reasonable, and arguably necessary, to assume that their viable service life as tested must have exceeded the amount of 10.4mm rounds available to the rifles in storage. In short, it would hardly make sense to spend the time, materials, and labor to convert a 10.4mm Vetterli to 6.5mm if the rifle could only withstand a few dozen rounds before failing, when significantly more ammunition per rifle was available for the 10.4mm. 

  • It is possible, though, that this could have been a known tradeoff, whereby converting a majority of the existing 1870/87 rifles to the 1870/87/15 pattern would simultaneously increase the amount of cartridges available to each 1870/87 rifle, with the 1870/87/15 rifles deliberately accepting a shorter service life for it. This is unlikely however. 

• The significant change in the configuration of the Vetterli rifle and the drastic increase in operating pressure from the original 1870 pattern to the 1870/87/15 pattern undoubtedly introduced a much shorter, finite lifespan. Where most all military rifles of the time were designed to, for all practical purposes, operate indefinitely with the issued ammunition, the 1870/87/15 conversions were at the absolute extreme end of the spectrum of how significantly a firearm can be modified from its original design and still function.

  • As a result of this, the mechanical condition of the 1870/87/15 rifle will degrade at a much faster rate compared to that of, for example, a Mosin Nagant. Simply, firing 1 round of standard-issue ammuntion from a Mosin Nagant will produce negligible degradation to the action, whereas firing 1 round of standard-issue ammunition from a Vetterli 1870/87/15 will have a much greater impact to the mechanical condition. 

Accounts of Vetterli 1870/87/15 rifles failing can be found, but it is often very difficult to discern whether the ammunition or the rifle itself was at fault in said accounts as the details provided are often extremely vague. Several factors can play a critical role in causing a failure in these rifles, including:

• Inappropriate choice of powder for reducing (not all smokeless powders can be safely reduced without risking pressure spikes)

• Inappropriate bullet choice (the 6.5 Carcano .268’ bullet produced, and since discontinued, by Hornady had an incredibly thick jacket that resulted in severe pressure problems even in 1891 Carcano rifles)

  • As a sub-note, using a combination of the Hornady .268 Carcano bullet and a reduced charge appears to cause an even greater risk of danger as the reduced velocity could lead to the bullet slowing down in the gain twist rifling of the Vetterli 1870/87/15 (or Carcano) barrel, creating a bore obstruction and resulting in a dramatic pressure spike.

• Taking factory ammunition (most often PPU) and pulling the bullets, dumping out half the powder, and reseating the bullets (this is essentially a different version of the first point)

Over the past 3 years, my research and testing of the Vetterli 1870/87/15 has culminated in the firing of well over a thousand rounds through a total of 18 different rifles. This has given me the opportunity to observe various factors that contribute or counteract the safety of the rifles. Below are some factors which I believe are critical to verifying the safety of a Vetterli 1870/87/15:

• Brass exposure: The Vetterli 1870/87/15 rifles are unique in that unlike almost every other military bolt action rifle made, the chamber opens up directly into the magazine well. This means that you can see the bolt face up against the chamber when the bolt is closed, as well as a sliver of the case head. A first check is to chamber a dummy round and visually check for how much of the case is visible with the bolt closed (this is essentially a headspace check). The closer to zero visible brass, the better. If one sees several mm of brass visible, it could be indicative of significant headspace issues (though I have yet to observe an example of this).

• Action lockup: The action should be tested to verify the quality of the lockup. Due to many rifles being made before interchangeable parts processes were implemented, there is a degree of variation in the bolt components, which is important to consider since many rifles found today may not have their original bolts in them (these parts are not serialized, so it is impossible to know this). The lockup can be tested by dropping the sear, either by manipulation of the bolt and safety or by dry firing, and holding the trigger down while grabbing the bolt from the rear and attempting to move it forwards and rearwards. Ideally, there should be little to no free movement of the bolt, but some degree of movement will usually be present. I have not yet encountered issues with rifles having bolts with up to ~1.0mm of free movement. 

• Properly loaded ammunition: My testing with various powders and bullets has shown that powder selection is critical to ensure a proper gas seal in a reduced power load. IMR 4198 performed relatively well in this application, though Accurate 5744 produced the best results. Unique powder has been referenced frequently in forums, though I have not yet tested it. 5744 was able to create a reasonably low power load (less than 25,000 PSI) while also having a relatively fast peak pressure time, preventing gas escape. Bullet selection is also very important, with bullets such as Hornady’s .264’ 140-grain BTHP bullet (item #26335) having a much smaller bearing surface as opposed to the torpedo-shaped bullets used in military 6.5 Carcano ammunition, which aids in keeping pressures low. Other 6.5mm .264” bullets performed relatively similarly in terms of accuracy.

  • Overpressure signs were noted when using the discontinued 6.5 Carcano .268” bullet from Hornady along with a reduced powder charge. This bullet should be avoided at all costs. 

• Use of good quality/condition brass: To best avoid any incidents of case head separation around the unsupported portion of the case, it is ideal to use fresh, unfired brass when loading for the Vetterlis in 6.5 Carcano. Additionally, limiting the number of reloads before switching to more fresh brass is recommended.

Of the 18 rifles I have fired, about 14 of them had come from Ethiopia, where they undoubtedly saw much more use and abuse than rifles that did not go into the region. The variation in the above safety factors among those rifles allowed me to test a wide range of rifle conditions for any possible failures, though none have occurred thus far. Additionally, torture tests with a randomly selected Vetterli 1870/87/15 have resulted in loads as high as 20% over maximum data being fired with no damage to the rifle, though this is obviously never recommended for normal use. It is certainly advisable to stay aware when shooting one as reducing a load too far can result in a squibbed barrel. Periodic visual checks of the bolt collar for any cracks beginning to form is also wise. With proper safety checks and ammunition loaded to an appropriate level, these rifles absolutely can be fired today, and are in fact very enjoyable to shoot. 

Special acknowledgement must be given to Robert Wilsey, whose fantastic book The Italian Vetterli Rifle: Development, Variants and History in Service laid the groundwork for research into these previously mysterious and under-studied firearms. Additionally, special thanks to Diego Bianco for providing several Italian Army documents outlining Italian inventories of Vetterli rifles and ammunition during WW1.

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